[mb-style] RFC: Setting Classical Release Artists to Performers

[Chris B]

On 07/02/2008, Aaron Cooper <cooperaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7-Feb-08, at 4:43 AM, Chris B wrote:
> > On 07/02/2008, Aaron Cooper <cooperaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Please take a look at http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ClassicalReleaseArtistsStyleProposal
> >>
> >> Please share your thoughts and concerns.
> >
> > i suppose i should say what i said in the other thread again for
> > clarity (and elaborate on it):
> >
> > IME the release artist is always the billed artist (eg
> > http://musicbrainz.org/release/ac70bc10-f96e-420a-b319-ba09b0485e34.html
> > ), so i think relating the release artist field to the 'performer' (or
> > indeed, 'composer') is incorrect.
>
> I don't understand this because soloists, conductors, and orchestras
> are also billed.

billed, or featured? if in doubt, who's on the spine? or who's written
first? i'm sure there are examples of classical releases with
overloaded billed artists, but in the small selection i have to hand
that's not the case.

>  The steps I outlined are to help us wade through
> this and pick (hopefully) one person suitable of being the RA.  In
> most cases, the composer had absolutely nothing to do with release an
> album of a performance of their work (If they did, how arrogant to
> assume others would want to hear it!  Also, the most common composers
> have been dead for decades before albums of their works were released).

i don't think release artist entails any kind of direct involvement.
it's highlighting of a particular element of a release - the artist
you'd want to catalogue this under, and market it as.

> I think we give due credit to composers by leaving them as track
> artists, but when a performer works on an album and releases it, I
> think they should be the RA.  This isn't a new idea, we do this when a
> performer puts out a release with work by multiple composers.

aye, and the performer would more than likely be the billed artist in
this scenario.

> > i realise this is a redefining of ReleaseArtist, but IMO i think
> > that's what we've always meant, it just happens that in contemporary
> > music, the billed artist is normally the performer, and in classical
> > music, the composer.
>
> When you go to a concert, the composer, conductor, orchestra, and
> soloists are all billed in the program.  Likewise for CDs.

as i said, not in my experience :) eg:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/b/ref=amb_link_44820965_2?ie=UTF8&node=328226011&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=right-4&pf_rd_r=15NW4WCZ0WZRE1KKNZVE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=150133591&pf_rd_i=697386
- all billed under the composer. the other artists involved are often
billed, but not the billed artist (ie, the primary name on the
sleeve), except in compilations or otherwise
performer/conductor-orientated releases.

> > a use case:
> > the tagger uses the release artist field to update my itunes' 'Album
> > Artist' field, which then affects how my music is sorted. as such, i
> > want my digital music to be indexed as my physical music is indexed -
> > by billed artist. i also want to see discographies that are based on
> > when an artist was billed, as that's how i see music is normally
> > catalogued.
>
> If you do not like this idea, you could easily set the RA to %composer
> % using TaggerScript.

but it's not being stored MBz side - i'm just looking at the sleeves
and making the decision every time (and then changing my scripts to
suit). a wholesale solution (all RAs are performers) is more suited
for taggerscript, surely? (invalidated by your later comment! see
below)

> > eg, i scroll through my CD collection (or mp3s, or musicbrainz
> > artists) to find Henryk Górecki, not the polish national orchestra,
> > when i want to find my release of sorrowful songs. a release billed
> > under the polish national orchestra would typically be a different
> > kind of release (eg a compilation of them playing a variety of
> > different compositions)
>
> A far better way to find music would be to search for "Gorecki" -- let
> your media player do the dirty work. ;)

well yeah :) but

> But seriously, I think this proposal will help us identify a primary
> performer who should be the RA.  In the case of works like "Complete
> Beethoven Edition" it only makes sense to use the composer as RA since
> the set is about them and they are the only person common amongst all
> tracks.
>
> > i think that if people want to use a particular role to occupy the
> > release artist (composer or performer), then the tagger could do that
> > automatically from ARs, but maybe others don't care for billed artist
> > at all?
>
> Setting the RA from performance ARs would be much more difficult
> because we'd have to figure out a way to programatically determine
> which one of the performance ARs to use for the RA.  Working the other
> way (using TaggerScript to set RA to composer) is much easier.

very good point!