[mb-style] CSG

[Lukáš Lalinský]

On Ut, 2008-02-26 at 10:49 -0500, Brian Schweitzer wrote:
> >  On Ut, 2008-02-26 at 07:36 -0500, Aaron Cooper wrote:
> >  > I disagree with luks.  A work title not only identifies a larger
> >  > work
> >  > but also the individual "movements" of those works.  Classical "songs"
> >  > don't have "titles", unless you consider common names like "Eroica" a
> >  > title.
> >
> >  I wasn't walking about work titles at all, nor about classical "songs".
> >  What we have in MB are track titles, which sucks for classical, but
> >  that's the way it is. Track titles will always depend on the context in
> >  which they are released, so trying to make them absolutely identify
> >  musical works in all cases doesn't make sense to me. Reformatting is
> >  fine, standardization is fine, but changing the title to something
> >  completely different than on the cover isn't (in my opinion). We should
> >  wait for actual musical work entities with that.
> 
> luks, and where the liner

Ok, here is my reply, but these things are not related to CSG *AT ALL*.
(I know that I sound negative in this thread, I don't really mean to,
but I just don't like this black or white point of view -- either copy
liner noters or copy CSGS pages, nothing in between).

> a) misidentifies the work (I've seen multiple cases of Philips doing
> this, for example) in part or entirely?

We already do correct misidentified titles, that is nothing specific to
classical. If you have take an average mixed trance CD with miscredited
tracks (where it happens a lot), they are usually fixed in MB.

> b) is simply "Allegro"?

Show me one release where a track is identified as "Allegro", without
mentioning "Symphony No. XY" and the composer's name on the front cover.

> c) is in multiple languages, or the same release has been reissued
> multiple times with different liners? (very common, in fact, the
> majority)

http://cover-paradies.to/?Module=ViewElement&ID=40762

Nothing specific to classical.

> d) contains typos, etc?

Same as a), nothing specific to classical.

> What we're talking about it taking "Allegro", taking "Symphony No. 22:
> Allegro", etc and putting it together the same way each time.  CSG
> already does that, and it's worked - but only because of some very
> hard work by all the classical editors to try and nit-pick the same
> titles over and over and over again.  All the revised CSG would do is
> bring together all the decisions that have been made in the 14+ months
> since CSG last was revised.  All the CSGS would do it provide a
> copy/paste version of many of the work titles people need, leaving
> them and the classical editors free to work on such things as ARs.

All I'm saying is that this, in my opinion, isn't going to work. Tracks
have context (release), and in different contexts they have different
titles even if they represent the same music (see e.g. soundtracks vs.
soundtrack compilations, album versions of tracks on albums vs. on
singles, ...). You can ignore it, but until we have at least track
masters in the DB where absolute work identification makes sense, you
can't be surprised to find people who disagree with you.

> If you're already putting in "Symphony No. 22: 1. Allegro" from a
> liner with decent info, is it really so different to add a key, to
> identify if it's the one with or without clarinets, or to use a common
> numbering system for the movement number?

Where does this end? What is ok to add and what isn't? We don't add
complete locations to "(live, XXX)" just because we know it, we usually
only add as much info as on the cover. The same way we don't add "(feat.
XXX)" to titles because we know that XXX performed vocals/instrument on
the track, but we add it because the artist is featured on the track. Or
what about "(take 2, with clarinets and piano played on 2006/03/04)"?

Lukas

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