[mb-style] CSG

[Chris B]

2008/2/27 Brian Schweitzer <brian.brianschweitzer at gmail.com>:
>
> > > >  > > >  languages on the liner, do we then add it not once, but 4 times, plus
>  >  >  >  > > >  any additional time as needed where the same release also has variant
>  >  >  >  > > >  versions / reissues in yet further languages?
>  >  >  >  > >
>  >  >  >  > > yes. other language editions are added as per
>  >  >  >  > > http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/TranslationTransliterationRelationshipType
>  >  >  >  > >
>  >  >  >  > > for releases with more than one language on the cover, i believe we
>  >  >  >  > > pick one to use on the official release (the native language usually),
>  >  >  >  > > and then make the rest pseudo-releases.
>  >  >  >  > >
>  >  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  > Can you give an example of such a pseudo-release in classical?
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  not classical but...
>  >  >  >  http://musicbrainz.org/release/ab0183d7-b1cc-469f-8e1f-310a8212a053.html
>  >  >  >
>  >  >  >  i don't see how classical makes it any different? if someone wants to
>  >  >  >  store a transl(iter)ation they can, but if it's not actually from the
>  >  >  >  tracklisting of a release, it's a pseudo-release.
>  >  >
>  >  >  That's the point, though.  I don't know that release particularly, but
>  >  >  taking the pseudo-releases I do tend to run in to, you have a anime
>  >  >  soundtrack released in Japan, someone translates the titles to add the
>  >  >  translation, and then we have a pseudo-release listing with translated
>  >  >  titles.  Those titles, however, are the equivalent of "fansubs" - they
>  >  >  never actually appeared in English on a liner.
>  >
>  >  they're not always fansubs. they could be official translations either
>  >  on the liner, but not on the *tracklist*, or maybe on an obi strip (eg
>  >  for 99% of japanese issues of UK/US/... albums)
>  >
>  >
>  >  >
>  >  >  Classical is different, in that, because the titles are descriptive,
>  >  >  not definitive, it's quite common that a release can have the titles,
>  >  >  on the same liner, in multiple languages.  I've seen the same
>  >  >  recording released 4 times, where if you add all the languages up from
>  >  >  the 4 different liners, you have 9 different possible languages - all
>  >  >  official, none pseudo-release.
>  >  >
>  >  >  This perhaps may happen, somewhat rarely, outside of classical, but
>  >  >  typically, outside of classical, the track's title is the track's
>  >  >  title, not a description of the contents of the track.  "Take Five" is
>  >  >  still "Take Five" on the Japanese imports I have.  But though it might
>  >  >  happen, it's still going to be rare that you'd have, say, the French
>  >  >  release using "Prendre cinq" as the title instead.  Classical, on the
>  >  >  other hand, it not only happens, it's not only quite common, but it's
>  >  >  also quite common to happen even on the same liner.  So thus the
>  >  >  question, if we're not going to standardize a language for a composer,
>  >  >  and we're going to ask that the language of the liner be retained,
>  >  >  then just what is that language?
>  >  >
>  >  >  Do we really want people adding the same exact release multiple times,
>  >  >  even from the same single CD/LP liner, just because the liner has
>  >  >  German, French, and English all on the same liner?
>  >
>  >  it's only the tracklisting we're concerned with. if a translation
>  >  appears on the liner/obi strip, then that's a pseudo-release (this
>  >  part is IMO, but i feel it makes sense)
>  >
>  >  if it's an entirely separate release with a different language, then
>  >  that gets added separately as per
>  >  http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/dmppanda/wdaurdraft (or 'officially'
>  >
>  > http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/TranslationTransliterationRelationshipType
>  >  )
>  >
>  >  if multiple languages appear on the same tracklist - eg "1. Track Foo
>  >  (Le Foo)" - then currently we are to add that verbatim.
>  >
>  >  anyways, that's what the guidelines say. IMO any changes should be to
>  >  the guidelines as a whole. classical might deal with a larger volume
>  >  of these sort of titles, but the problems are the same all over.
>
>  I'm not speaking of obi strips, though you do remind me that I do have
>  one Brubeck CD with an obi which has Japanese translations.  The liner
>  on the other hand, even there, remains in English.  But this is what
>  we're talking about, just one example:
>  http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/brianfreud/gould.jpg
>
>  I didn't even bother to scan the full track titles in the booklet -
>  they take 8 full pages to list out, for a 2 CD release, in full, in 4
>  languages.

well, that's the important part :)

but ok, for the sake of argument lets say "The Well-Tempered Clavier
Book 1" is a track title... in the scan the english version is clearly
given priority, so becomes your track title for the 'official'
release, and the rest should only be in pseudo releases.

it could get interesting if no priority is given - then in theory we'd
have to list all variants in the same tracktitle, but i think there
comes a point where you have to pick one for the sake of MBz-side
legibility, and put the rest as pseudo-releases, but if it's just 2
versions then it's all good.