[mb-style] CSG compromise?

[Lauri Watts]

On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 12:53 AM, Aaron Cooper <cooperaa at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1-Mar-08, at 2:16 PM, Brian Schweitzer wrote:
>
>  <big snip>
>
>
>  > So until that happy day of NGS support, how do we compromise?  How can
>  > we ensure that the data allows the BBC to identify the work from the
>  > track, allows Aaron and me to tag and not find the data "quite messy",
>  > allows Leivhe and David to tag and have complete but not "overly"
>  > complete data, and still allows Lauri and her mother-in-law to tag and
>  > have what she wants?  (Just using us as examples of general user-base
>  > opinions here.)
>
>  <br>
>
>
>  > If we're aiming for "as on the liner", which liner,
>  > which translation, and what still gets fixed - caps, typos, mislisted
>  > works, etc?  If we're aiming for CSG, how complete, which languages,
>  > and are we essentially admitting that classical track titles per
>  > liners are descriptions and not "titles" per say?  Where can we all
>  > compromise such that the (I think majority) who wants at least some
>  > structure in the titles isn't left waiting 1-2 years for NGS to
>  > replace CSG, plus all the quite likely years of editing work to
>  > actually implement it across our classical listings?
>
>  Proposition:
>
>  a) For "chillout classical" releases where tracks are titled "Andante"
>  or "Allegro from Sonata No. 14" etc, enter the track titles in MB as
>  they appear on the CD and follow regular MB guidelines (http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/PartNumberStyle
>  , http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/SubTitleStyle, etc)
>
>  b) For "real classical" releases, use the CSGS lists for ease of
>  entering the releases and consistency.
>

Works for me, for the meantime at least.

Perhaps with a rider to say:

If you can't tell which is which, ask in the edit note (because
honestly, at this point, we don't
need a big discussion on which is which, when it can be easily solved
by asking case by case,
if common sense alone doesn't work.)

Or err in the direction of 'copy the cover', because it's easier to
fix 'incomplete -> CSGS' if necessary
than deal with completely misidentified tracks from people being
stunned like deer in headlights by
CSGS list and blindly copying anything that looks like it might be
close (if you know what
I mean, kind of the way PUID's end up assigned all over the darn place.)


Oh and someone wanted some 'ridiculous covers' as examples.  I present:

http://people.fruitsalad.org/lauri/stuff/the_best_classical_album_in_the_worldever_2004_retail_cd-back.jpg

http://people.fruitsalad.org/lauri/stuff/the_classical_album_2007_2006_retail_cd-back.jpg

http://people.fruitsalad.org/lauri/stuff/the_only_classical_album_youll_ever_need_2003_retail_cd-back.jpg

Of which my personal favourite for idiocy is the last.  I bet you
didn't know Pachelbel's Canon is famous because
of "Wool advertising"

Now if I may, I suggest everyone head back over to Olivier's thread
and continue dissecting
the current CSG paragraph by paragraph, it really needs it.

So do the rest of our guidelines though,  and if you don't know what I
mean, think about
"Some Famous DJ & DJ Someone Else Famous pres. DJ Nobody vs. Someone More
feat Someone Entirely Else - Some track name - Some Group Name mix (radio edit)"

... bearing in mind, Some Famous DJ and DJ Someone Else are both
members of the 'Some Group Name',
and 'Someone More' could well actually be a performance name for that
group (or a group with the
exact same members, if you will).  This is an only slightly contrived
example though.  And you don't
really need to tell me how you'd enter it, it's just to point out, you
_have_ to be familiar with the music and
the artist to even figure out how to split it into an artist name and
a track title, guess case will likely mangle
it beyond recogition, and even then, our guidelines on the whole deal
are eyebleedingly confusing.

So though some of us rail a little at the CSG, it's not 'the CSG' that
is the problem, really, it's that we actually
expect all our users to have some familiarity with the music they own,
when they probably bought the
classical chillout album on a whim at the gas station, and they
probably got that Ibiza club album
on the airport on the way home from two weeks on the Costa del Sol,
and they know nothing about either
and us being impatient with them getting the details wrong when they
enter them in MB is not
really helping that.

-- 
Lauri Watts