[mb-users] Digest of a personal thread that Fuchs started (Was:Uff ...)

[joan WHITTAKER]

We have been discussing having a bulletin board, quite separate from specialised lists such as users, style, etc., where people can sound off.  It would only be the items specifically posted to the specialist boards which developers need to worry about.

A bulletin board could prove a very useful safety valve for quite a few members of the community and prove a way of keeping the flame wars out of the users and other lists.

Joan
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Kaye 
  To: General discussions about MusicBrainz 
  Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:15 PM
  Subject: Re: [mb-users] Digest of a personal thread that Fuchs started (Was:Uff ...)




  On Aug 18, 2006, at 4:55 AM, Don Redman wrote:
    From: "Lukáš Lalinský" <lalinsky at gmail.com>
    To: "Robert Kaye" <rob at eorbit.net>
    Subject: Re: [MB] Uff ...
    Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:11:28 +0200


    Robert Kaye wrote:
      As with running any other business (and we've been a business for nearly
      2 years now), basic principles apply: 1) The customer (community member)
      is always right 2) Representatives who engage customers in a negative
      way or abuse their powers open themselves to being reprimanded and
      possibly removed from their job. These points hold true for any business
      that hopes to survive and thus they hold true to us as well.


    Yes, this works very well in business, which I hope MusicBrainz isn't. And if it
    is, then it's just one more reason for me to not be here.


  My point here is not to focus on the 'business' aspects of MusicBrainz. My intent in mentioning 'the customer is always right' principles were in essence to state these values (cut from above):


         * politeness
         * respect
         * trust
         * humility


  If we go about fixing the community and restoring these values to be part of our community AND creating some sort of community dispute resolution process then my concerns will be addressed.


    What led to this incident, were not community wishes, but wishes of a few
    people. I was in Greece when this all started, but from what I saw on the
    mailing lists he had no problems with listening to the *community* wishes. But I
     agree that he should be able to leave a discussion without having the last word.


    It's not that hard, after all, and it usually pisses of the attacking person
    even more than the "last word". ;)


      2. Stefan needs a co-worker. Stefan gets frustrated if no one is paying
      attention to his work. Stefan also works VERY fast, but doesn't do
      enough testing to ensure that his changes are not going to have ill
      effects. For the last month or two I've been trying to play this role,
      and I don't get my own work done because working with Stefan and
      continually solving conflicts in his wake has been very tiring. Now that
      my health is being affected by playing this role, I can no longer play
      this role. We need to find someone who will be the Yang to Stefan's Yin.


    Agreed, and this is the most important from these there points.


  These there points? You starting to sound like someone from the south of the US. :-) :-)


  Seriously, do we have any suggestions for how to do this?


      3.  The community is arguably broken. It may solely be the vocal
      minority who is screaming so loud that they are getting in Stefans face
      and causing him lots of hassles. Without them there may not be a problem
      -- maybe there is. Its hard to say. How do we, the "inner circle" work
      out a system so that we can listen to the broader community and
      partially tune out the shouting by the vocal minority? If we defuse the
      vocal minority things may return to a peace.


    Don't try to identify the "inner circle" and don't try to defuse anybody! This
    won't work.


  I promise you that I will change my habits. I've hated this part of the MusicBrainz job and if someone from the community tells me to stop doing this, I will be glad to do so! (but bear with me, I have to retool my brain to stop doing what I've done for 6 years).


    Asking for opinions of community is of course right, but you should not rely on
    them and you should not take them too seriously. People usually don't know very
    well what exactly do then want or need. And if somebody will start insisting on
    his ideas without listening to any other arguments, then just turn the filter in
    your head on (this the only thing I know Stefan did wrong, because he tried to
    communicate even with these people).


  Yup. This is easier said than done though. I personally think this goes hand in hand with the point I raised about tuning down the vocal minority and listening to a broader base of community members. Does anyone have any good suggestions for how to do both/either of these?


  --


  --ruaok      Somewhere in Texas a village is *still* missing its idiot.


  Robert Kaye     --     rob at eorbit.net     --    http://mayhem-chaos.net










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