[mb-users] re: Capitalization or not

[Björn Krombholz]

On 8/31/06, Dave Smey <autodave at davesmey.com> wrote:
> > First, I don't think we need a rule/guideline for this at all as there
> > is obviously no such rule for the English language.
>
> Well, it seems that there may be a "rule of initial capitalization" that
> trumps other considerations.  As I've already discussed, this is
> *certainly* the case at the beginnings of sentences - you must capitalize
> the first letter despite other impulses you may have.

That's right, the question is whether ' is the first letter or R
(taking the 'round example). As already stated, it's the same with an
ellipsis: ...round or ...Round. The latter would be just confusing.

>  and it also seems to also be professional practice in the
> external world (see my discussion of a specific CD example and of library
> databases).

A CD is a bad example as you will find all kinds of "artistic"
capitalizations for titles, like first letter small, everything else
in caps; only small letters; only capital letters, every first letter
small; etc.

The library evidence is more convincing, though you talk about a
database which most likely uses some automatic system for applying
capitalization for titles. Some real (physical) examples from a
library would be nice.

> > So use, what the artist used.
> Just curious, does anybody have a compelling example of the apostrophe +
> lowercase usage "in the wild"?  Or is this just something we are making
> up?

It's an extremely rare case and on CD covers you most often find
'ROUND MIDNIGHT, 'round midnight, 'Round Midnight, 93 'til Infinity,
93 'TIL INFINITY, 'til tuesday, 'TIL TUESDAY ...

And that's what I think there is no need for a complicated guideline.
There are about 100-150 album titles in the DB, which have a title
starting with an apostrophe. The 'Round Midnight example seems to
prefer the capitalized style, so be it (in fact most releases I found,
use all caps titles).

> > For items where no artist intent is identifiable, I'd prefer 'round,
> > because
> > a) a big letter following the apostrophe makes the semantics of the
> > apostrophe ambiguous, because it could be the starting of a quotes
> > phrase, or an omission of parts of a word.
> This doesn't strike me a problematic.  There are many ambiguities in
> written language, and we resolve them by semantic context.  Do you find
> 'Round Midnight to be genuinely confusing?

Yes as well as "unnatural" and illogical.

>  Of course not, or at least you
> shouldn't.

Why? We know it's "broken" English anyway, it's an artistic title
which could as well have been "Round Midnight".

> > b) it's what would be correct in my mother tongue German
> Anyway, doesn't
> German have a rule of initial sentence capitalization as well?

Yes.

>  Would you
> start a sentence with apostrophe + lowercase?

Yes.

> > c) it looks better in my eyes ;)
> :|

:-þ

> Seriously, this is a cultural problem here at MB (or, at least mb-users.)
> Everyone's got an opinion, but they don't want to do any research or even
> read each others' posts.

I did a lot of research yesterday. The problem was I couldn't find any
trustworthy document describing any rules for this problem. The
correct english terms are: aphesis and apheresis. So maybe someone
could look this up in an English typography book or similar. There is
nothing I could find in the web ... :(

> I know it's unreasonably cranky of me to dissect this post which was,
> after all, meant to be some sort of compromise.

That's what discussion is about. :)

I've attached lists of album + track titles that match problem. Maybe
someone wants to take a look at it to see whether a guideline would
work for all cases. I won't do it because I really don't care that
much about capitalization. If it was only me, I would use a much
simpler rule like everything small or everyt word starting with a
capital letter -- something that could be applied automatically,
because in my opinion people are wasting a lot of time with edits
fixing capitalization issues.



#Fuchs
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'Cos Life Hurts
'cross the Big Pond
'fess: The Professor Longhair Anthology (disc 1)
'Fess: The Professor Longhair Anthology (disc 2)
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'Round About Midnight at the Cafe Bohemia, Volume II
'Round About Midnight Legacy Edition (Disc 2 of 2)
'Round About Midnight, Volume 2
'round Every Corner
'Round Midnight
'Round Midnight And Other Jazz Classics
'Round Midnight (disc 1)
'Round Midnight (disc 2)
'Round Midnight - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack
'round Midnight (The Roulette Years) (disc 1)
'Round The Corner
's Always Conniff
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'Schuldigung
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'Sno Angel Like You
'Splosion!!
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't Beste
't Beste van 2 werelden (disc 1)
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'the True Player
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'D.F.C. (Scot Project remix)
'Di Bale na Lang
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'Round about midnight
'Round about Midnight
'Round About Midnight
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'Round About Midnight (Monk)
'Round about Midnite
'Round About the Mountain
'round Christmas Time
'Round Every Corner
'Round for You
'round Here
'round Midnight
'Round midnight
'Round Midnight
'Round Midnight (feat. Gerry Mulligan)
'round Midnight (feat. John Coltrane & Red Garland)
'Round Midnight (feat. Thelonious Monk)
'round Midnight (feat. Vincent Herring and Roy Hargrove)
'Round Midnight (in progress)
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'Round Midnight live at Newport Jazz Festival 1955 feat T.Monk
'round Midnight (Previously Unissued)
'Round Midnight (Rendezvous Mix)
'round Midnight Reprise
'Round Midnight (take 2)
'Round Midnight (Take 7 - Originally Issued)
'round Midnight (Thelonius Sphere Monk - Charles Melvin Cootie Williams)
'Round Midnight/The Theme
'Round Midnight (vocal version)
'Round Mindnight
'Round My Old Deserted Farm
'Round Springfield (Medley)
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'round Ten
'Round the Bay of Mexico
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's
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's Numbness
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'sponsible
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'temporary Blues
't Fer leet daor zo schoon te kaike
't Gaat te fur (feat. Aila)
't Gat Van Jan
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'Til Death
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'Til Death do Us Part
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'Til Death Do Us Unite
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'till Fingers Bleed
'Till Fingers Bleed
'till Good Luck Comes My Way
'Till I Can Make It on My Own
'Till I Can Make It On My Own
'Till I Collapse (feat. Nate Dogg)
'Till I Come Around
'Till I Come Back Again
'Till I Come Off The Road
'Till I Die
'till I Gain Control Again
'till I Get Me (to Get Free)
'Till I Get There
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'Till it Bled
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'Till Last Summer
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'Till Nothing Comes Between Us
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'Till September
'Till the Bottom Drops Out
'Till the Bough Breaks
'till the Circle Is Through
'Till The End
'Till The End Of The World
'Till the End of Time
'Till The End of Time
'Till The End Of Time
'Till The Following Night
'till the last drop of Blood
'Till Then
'Till There Was You
'Till There Was You (Gabriel and Dresden mix)
'Till the Rivers All Run Dry
'Till the Rivers Run Dry
'Till the Wheels Fall Off
'Till The Wheels Fall Off
'Till Times Get Better
'till to the Bitter End
'Till Victory
'Till We Drop
'Till We Meet Again
'till We Meet Again (feat. Patti Page)
'Till We Reach That Day
'till You Come Back
'Till You Come Back To Me
'Till You Get There
'Till You Happened To Me
'Till You Leave
'Til Morning
'Til My Baby Comes Back
'Til My Baby Comes Home
'Til My Balls Turn Blue
'til My Dying Day
'Til My Head Explodes
'Til My Heart Beats Down Your Door
'Til My Teardrops Turn to Gold
'Til Nothing Comes Between Us
'Til Reveille
'Til San Francisco
'til September
'Til September
'Til She Comes Down
'Til Sunrise
'Til That Moment
'til the Band Comes In
'Til the Band Comes In
'til the Bars Burn Down
'til the Best Comes Along
'Til The Best Comes Along
'Til the Blood Ran
'til the Break on Dawn
'Til the Christ Come Back
'Til The Christ Come Back
'Til the Circle is Through
'Til The Clouds Roll Away
'til the Cows Come Home
'Til the Cows Come Home
'Til The Cows Come Home
'Til the Dance Is Over
'Til The Dawn Breaks
'Til The Day
'til the Day After
'Til the Day After
'Til the Day (Bliss remix)
'Til the Day (Blizzard mix)
'Til the Day (Blizzard remix)
'Til the Day (DJ Phosphor mix)
'Til the Day I Die
'Til The Day I Die
'til The Day (in the saloon)
'til the Death
'til the End
'Til the End
'Til The End
'Til the End (jazz version)
'Til The End (Lovelude)
'Til the End of the Day
'Til The End of the World
'Til The End Of The World
'Til The End Of The World Rolls Round
'til the End of Time
'Til the end of time
'Til the End of Time
'Til The End of Time
'Til The End Of Time
'Til the End of Time (feat. Kristy Thirsk)
'Til the Following Night
'Til the Good Lord Shows His Face
'Til The Last Day!
'Til the Last Diamond Falls
'til the Last Drop of Blood
'Til the Last Leaf Shall Fall
'til The Major
'Til the Money Runs Out
'Til The Morning
'til the Morning Comes
'Til the Morning Comes
'Til The Morning Comes
'til the Morning Comes (reprise)
'Til the Morning Light
'Til the Morning Sun Shines on My Love and Me
'Til The Mountains Disappear
'til Then
'Til Then
'Til the Next Day Comes
'til the Old Wears Off
'Til the Pigs Come Round
'til There Was You
'Til There Was You
'til There Was You (from "The Music Man")
'Til The Right One Comes Along
'Til the River Runs Dry
'Til The River Runs Dry
'Til the Season Comes Around Again
'til the Season Comes Round Again
'til These Dreams Come True
'Til The Stars In His Eyes Are Dead
'Til the Storm Passes By
'Til The Storm Passes By
'Til the Sun Comes Shining Through
'Til the Sun Goes Cold
'til the Tears Fell
'Til the Tide Creeps In
'Til the Tide Creeps In / Plans
'Til the Weekend Comes
'Til the Well Runs Dry
'til the Wheels Come Off
'Til the wheels fall of
'Til The Wheels Fall Off
'Til They Cut Me Down
'til They Take My Heart Away
'Til They Take My Heart Away
'Til Time and Times Are Done
'Til Tomorrow
'Til Tonight
'Til Tuesday
'Til U Get Enough
'Til We Die
'til We Meet Again
'Til We Meet Again
'til We Reach the Top (feat. Sharlock Poems and Cookbook)
'Til You Come Back
'Til You Come Back Home
'til You Come Back to Me
'Til You Come Back to Me
'til You Cry
'Til You Cry
'Til You Do Me Right
'Til You Faint
'Til You Get There
'Til You Hear They Blow
'Til You Take the Pain Away
'til You Were Gone
'Ti Monde
'Tiot
'Tis A Custom In The Afternoon
't Is afgelopen
'Tis a Gift to Be Simple
't Is al laat
't Is altijd iets met die wijven
't Is altijd lente
't Is altijd nou
't Is aovond
'tis Autumn
'Tis Autumn
't Is een kwestie van geduld
't Is een kwis
't Is gedoan met de dikke madam
't Is genoeg
't Is goed om u te ontmoeten
't Is jammer voor de rijken
't Is mi hebbe nie te haole
't Is mij allemaol wel best
't Is moeilijk bescheiden te blijven
't Is net een poppenhuis
't Is nie te geleuve
't Is niets
't Is niks
't Is nog niet voorbij
't Is nooit te laat
't Is of de wereld vergaat
'Tis of Thee
'Tis Pretty to be in Balinderry
'Tis Pretty to Be in Balinderry
'Tis Pretty To Be In Ballinderry
'Tis So Sweet
'tis So Sweet to Trust in Jesus
'Tis So Sweet to Trust in Jesus
't Is stil
't Is stil (aan de overkant)
't Is stil (aan de overkant) (akoestisch)
't Is stil in Amsterdam
'tis Sweet to Be Remembered
'Tis Sweet to Be Remembered
'Tis Sweet To Be Remembered
't Is te laat
'Tis the Last Rose of Summer
'Tis The Last Rose Of Summer
'Tis the Old Ship of Zion
'Tis the Season
'Tis the Season (Deck the Halls)
'tis the Sheriff!
'Tis the "Witching Time Of Night"
't Is voorbij
't Is weer fijn langs de lijn
't Is weer harmonica tijd
't Is weer voorbij die mooie zomer
't Is Weer Voorbij Die Mooie Zomer
'tis Your Kind of Music
'Tis Your Kind of Music
't Is zo weer voorbij
'Tit Galop
'Tits Yeux Noirs (Little Blackeyes)
't Jeugdig groen
't Juiste merk
't Kampvuur laait
't Kan nooit meer gisteren zijn
't Kapelletje van breninge
't Keumt allemoal dor ow
't Kindje Kangoeroe verjaart
't kleine caf�� aan de haven
't Kleine caf�� aan de haven
't Komt Me Strot Uit
't L����g nie ��n men
't Laatste rondje
'T la ciuli nen
't Leven is best wel zwaar
't Leven is kut
't Leven is te kort
'T Libben Is Prachtich
't Liefste
't Liegbenkske
't Lijk
'T Meisken Was Jonck
't Nachien
't Niejerwetske karkleed (leedke) (Twents)
'Togatown
't Ouwe liedje
't Pompierke
'trane
'Trane
't Rechte spoor
't Rode licht
't Roeie klied
't Rooie klied
't Sald����tjen
'Tschuldigung Bier
'Tschuldigung...Ficken
't Sleutelkind
't Smidje
'T Smidje
't Snorreken
't Spijt me
't Sprookje is nu uit
'Tudes
'tut gut (a cappella)
'tut gut (instrumental)
'tut gut (radio edit)
'tut gut (radio edit without rap)
'tut gut (remix)
't Veurjoar
't Viswuvetje
'T Vliegend Kunstgebit
't Vliegerke
't Voordeel van de twijfel
't Vrouwtje
't Was aan de Costa del Sol
't Was Altijd Zo
'Twas a Night Like Ethel Merman / Beyond the Sea / Blue Moon / Young Love
'Twas Brillig
'Twas Da Nite
't Was een lieve stille wereld
'Twas Even
't Was grandioos
'Twas in the Moon of Wintertime
'Twas in the Moon of Winter Time
'Twas in the Seventeen Hunder Year
'Twas in the Year (10th Century, Arr. Charles Wood)
'Twas Love
'Twas on a Night Like This
'Twas on my Birthday night
'Twas on My Birthday Night
'Twas the Dawn of a Beautiful Day
'Twas the Day After Christmas (Poem)
'Twas the Fright Before Christmas
'Twas the Night
'Twas the Night After Christmas
'Twas the Night Befoer Christmas
'twas the Night Before Christmas
'Twas the Night before Christmas
'Twas the Night Before Christmas
'Twas The Night Before Christmas
'Twas the Night Before Recess
'Twas the Royal Feast
'twas the Scots
'Twas the Siege of Vicksburg
't Woanskip
't Word tied
't Zeemansliedje
't Zijn de kleine dingen
't Zijn momenten
't Zoutvat
'Ulili
'Ulili E
'Ulili E (The Wandering TattlerBird)
'Ulupalakua
'U mercatu
'u pisci spada
'Utili E
've Grown Accustomed to Her Face [Instrumental]
'Way Back Down Home
'Way Back Home
'Way Down in Egypt Land
'way Down Yonder in New Orleans
'Way Down Yonder in New Orleans
'Way Down Yonder In New Orleans
'wonderful
'Xcuse Me, Gentlemen (The Fall of Atlantis)
'Ya Famous
'Y Aviat Du Soleil
'You_Gone?
'zat You, Santa Claus?
'Zat You Santa Claus
'Zat You Santa Claus?
'Zat You, Santa Claus?
'Zat you, Santa Claus (feat. The Commanders)
'Zat You, Santa Claus (feat. The Commanders)
'Zat You, Santa Claus? (feat. The Commanders)
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