*** SPAM *** Re: [mb-users] re: Capitalization or not

[joan WHITTAKER]

I would happily have a look at it Fuchs, but your attachments would have me 
running off to the opticians for a much stronger pair of glasses.  Is there 
no way you can show these as individual lines instead of them all running 
together.

Please  :)

Joan
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Björn Krombholz" <fox.box at gmail.com>
To: <autodave at davesmey.com>; "General discussions about MusicBrainz" 
<musicbrainz-users at lists.musicbrainz.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:09 PM
Subject: *** SPAM *** Re: [mb-users] re: Capitalization or not


> On 8/31/06, Dave Smey <autodave at davesmey.com> wrote:
>> > First, I don't think we need a rule/guideline for this at all as there
>> > is obviously no such rule for the English language.
>>
>> Well, it seems that there may be a "rule of initial capitalization" that
>> trumps other considerations.  As I've already discussed, this is
>> *certainly* the case at the beginnings of sentences - you must capitalize
>> the first letter despite other impulses you may have.
>
> That's right, the question is whether ' is the first letter or R
> (taking the 'round example). As already stated, it's the same with an
> ellipsis: ...round or ...Round. The latter would be just confusing.
>
>>  and it also seems to also be professional practice in the
>> external world (see my discussion of a specific CD example and of library
>> databases).
>
> A CD is a bad example as you will find all kinds of "artistic"
> capitalizations for titles, like first letter small, everything else
> in caps; only small letters; only capital letters, every first letter
> small; etc.
>
> The library evidence is more convincing, though you talk about a
> database which most likely uses some automatic system for applying
> capitalization for titles. Some real (physical) examples from a
> library would be nice.
>
>> > So use, what the artist used.
>> Just curious, does anybody have a compelling example of the apostrophe +
>> lowercase usage "in the wild"?  Or is this just something we are making
>> up?
>
> It's an extremely rare case and on CD covers you most often find
> 'ROUND MIDNIGHT, 'round midnight, 'Round Midnight, 93 'til Infinity,
> 93 'TIL INFINITY, 'til tuesday, 'TIL TUESDAY ...
>
> And that's what I think there is no need for a complicated guideline.
> There are about 100-150 album titles in the DB, which have a title
> starting with an apostrophe. The 'Round Midnight example seems to
> prefer the capitalized style, so be it (in fact most releases I found,
> use all caps titles).
>
>> > For items where no artist intent is identifiable, I'd prefer 'round,
>> > because
>> > a) a big letter following the apostrophe makes the semantics of the
>> > apostrophe ambiguous, because it could be the starting of a quotes
>> > phrase, or an omission of parts of a word.
>> This doesn't strike me a problematic.  There are many ambiguities in
>> written language, and we resolve them by semantic context.  Do you find
>> 'Round Midnight to be genuinely confusing?
>
> Yes as well as "unnatural" and illogical.
>
>>  Of course not, or at least you
>> shouldn't.
>
> Why? We know it's "broken" English anyway, it's an artistic title
> which could as well have been "Round Midnight".
>
>> > b) it's what would be correct in my mother tongue German
>> Anyway, doesn't
>> German have a rule of initial sentence capitalization as well?
>
> Yes.
>
>>  Would you
>> start a sentence with apostrophe + lowercase?
>
> Yes.
>
>> > c) it looks better in my eyes ;)
>> :|
>
> :-þ
>
>> Seriously, this is a cultural problem here at MB (or, at least mb-users.)
>> Everyone's got an opinion, but they don't want to do any research or even
>> read each others' posts.
>
> I did a lot of research yesterday. The problem was I couldn't find any
> trustworthy document describing any rules for this problem. The
> correct english terms are: aphesis and apheresis. So maybe someone
> could look this up in an English typography book or similar. There is
> nothing I could find in the web ... :(
>
>> I know it's unreasonably cranky of me to dissect this post which was,
>> after all, meant to be some sort of compromise.
>
> That's what discussion is about. :)
>
> I've attached lists of album + track titles that match problem. Maybe
> someone wants to take a look at it to see whether a guideline would
> work for all cases. I won't do it because I really don't care that
> much about capitalization. If it was only me, I would use a much
> simpler rule like everything small or everyt word starting with a
> capital letter -- something that could be applied automatically,
> because in my opinion people are wasting a lot of time with edits
> fixing capitalization issues.
>
>
>
> #Fuchs
>


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