[mb-users] re: Capitalization or not

[Dave Smey]

On Thu, August 31, 2006 6:09 pm, Björn Krombholz said:
> On 8/31/06, Dave Smey <autodave at davesmey.com> wrote:
>> > First, I don't think we need a rule/guideline for this at all as there
>> > is obviously no such rule for the English language.
>>
>> Well, it seems that there may be a "rule of initial capitalization" that
>> trumps other considerations.  As I've already discussed, this is
>> *certainly* the case at the beginnings of sentences - you must
>> capitalize
>> the first letter despite other impulses you may have.
>
> That's right, the question is whether ' is the first letter or R
> (taking the 'round example).

Right, but MB guidelines state (and professional practice so far observed
is consistent) that you capitalize R.  An apostrophe is not a letter and
you can't capitalize an invisible letter, so you capitalize R to signal
the beginning of the title.

> As already stated, it's the same with an
> ellipsis: ...round or ...Round. The latter would be just confusing.
>
That's a different implication, and nobody is disputing that.  The
ellipsis implies that there are whole missing words and missing semantic
information, that the title is already "in progress" somehow - beginning
with a lowercase emphasizes that nicely.  MB guidelines already address
that in the way you would prefer.

>>  and it also seems to also be professional practice in the
>> external world (see my discussion of a specific CD example and of
>> library
>> databases).
>
> A CD is a bad example as you will find all kinds of "artistic"
> capitalizations for titles, like first letter small, everything else
> in caps; only small letters; only capital letters, every first letter
> small; etc.
>
I am obviously only interested in CDs that seem to follow MB-style but
also imply the apostrophe + lowercase exception.  The idea that CDs are
not good evidence for style in a discographical database is absurd.

> The library evidence is more convincing, though you talk about a
> database which most likely uses some automatic system for applying
> capitalization for titles. Some real (physical) examples from a
> library would be nice.
>
Actually, no.  In a good library the cataloguing is done by a librarian,
who follows a professional standard.  Surely the whole idea of
style-guidelines for MB is inspired in part by libraries.

A "real (physical) example" from a library, apart from how it is
catalogued, is what most people would simply call "a book."  Books would
be good evidence too, I agree.

>> > So use, what the artist used.
>> Just curious, does anybody have a compelling example of the apostrophe +
>> lowercase usage "in the wild"?  Or is this just something we are making
>> up?
>
> It's an extremely rare case and on CD covers you most often find
> 'ROUND MIDNIGHT, 'round midnight, 'Round Midnight, 93 'til Infinity,
> 93 'TIL INFINITY, 'til tuesday, 'TIL TUESDAY ...
>
None of those examples are relevant, except of course 'Round Midnight
which is what is correct.  The rest are either following an irrelevant
capitalization scheme (all caps / no caps), or with 93 'til Infinity the
placement of til is not at the beginning (since "93" is the first word).

> And that's what I think there is no need for a complicated guideline.

But it's not complicated.  Just capitalize the freakin' R.

<snip>
>> This doesn't strike me a problematic.  There are many ambiguities in
>> written language, and we resolve them by semantic context.  Do you find
>> 'Round Midnight to be genuinely confusing?
>
> Yes as well as "unnatural" and illogical.
>
>>  Of course not, or at least you
>> shouldn't.
>
> Why? We know it's "broken" English anyway, it's an artistic title
> which could as well have been "Round Midnight".

No offence, but any genuine confusion you might feel stems from lack of
familiarity with the English language and American culture (in the case of
'Round Midnight).  Your preference does make sense if, as you say,
apostrophe + lowercase is absolutely a proper way to start sentences in
German, but, I'm sorry, that's just not relevant.

Anyway, the title is a written representation of a dialect, which deserves
as much respect as "proper" English.  The title is not Round Midnight
because that would not signal the dialect and would imply a midnight that
is circular in shape.  The apostrophe plus cultural familiarity makes it
clear that it is short for Around Midnight.  Capitalization vs. lowercase
won't really clarify that any more.

>
> I did a lot of research yesterday. The problem was I couldn't find any
> trustworthy document describing any rules for this problem. The
> correct english terms are: aphesis and apheresis. So maybe someone
> could look this up in an English typography book or similar. There is
> nothing I could find in the web ... :(
>
Well, good that you tried.  Another poster has already indicated that
capital-R is consistent with APA style, and I looked at a few CDs and
library catalogues.

But, lacking results, trying to support your preference with abstract
arguments is sheer wankery.  I find it irritating that I can come up with
some concrete examples from the external world and you can't, and yet you
cannot respect that (referring instead to "passionate opinions" as though
it is based on nothing.)

> I've attached lists of album + track titles that match problem. Maybe
> someone wants to take a look at it to see whether a guideline would
> work for all cases.

For the ones in English, the only one that comes out awkwardly is 'S
Wonderful and similar titles.  And even that is not difficult to get used
to (certainly 's Wonderful is not really any better.)   All the rest would
be fine with their capitals.  'Round, 'Bout, 'Cross, 'Til, it's all the
same.

> If it was only me, I would use a much
> simpler rule like everything small or everyt word starting with a
> capital letter -- something that could be applied automatically,
> because in my opinion people are wasting a lot of time with edits
> fixing capitalization issues.

The buttons do it automatically, though.  The guideline as it stands is
simply not a problem.  Carving out an exception for titles with
apostrophes actually makes it MORE inconsistent and complicated, and would
apparently not jibe with professional practice anyway.

-bklynd