[mb-users] Sortingorder Dutch tussenvoegsel

[Fred Marchee]

Kees Bakker schreef:
> Op 19 apr 2008, om 03:19 heeft Sander van Zoest het volgende geschreven:
>
>   
>> On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 10:38:36PM +0200, Fred Marchee wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi to all,
>>> ...
>>> As an example a part of the Dutch phonebook:
>>>
>>> http://nationaletelefoongids.goudengids.nl/search/leiden/buuren.html
>>> ...
>>> So an "official proposal":
>>>
>>> Please let the sortingorder of Dutch names with a tussenvoegsel be:  
>>> Last
>>> name, First name tussenvoegsel.
>>>       
>> Please look at the following example. I'd love your feedback. :)
>>     
>
>   
>> ...
>> Please let me know if I had it all wrong, but it my understanding that
>> the display manner was the this way and the actual sorting was the  
>> former.
>>
>>     
>
> Let me give another example, which shows how persons with the same  
> family name can end up totally mixed up.
>
> Dirk van de Soest
> Bart Soest
> Anton van Soest
> Kees  van Soest
> Jan Soest
> Cor van der Soest
>
> Sorting order 1:
> Soest,  , Bart
> Soest,  , Jan
> Soest, van , Anton
> Soest, van , Kees
> Soest, van de, Dirk
> Soest, van der, Cor
>
> Sorting order 2:
> Soest, Anton van
> Soest, Bart
> Soest, Cor van der
> Soest, Dirk van de
> Soest, Jan
> Soest, Kees van
>
> Personnaly I would prefer method 1. But I guess there are already  
> established methods (search for "Geest" at http://www.dbnl.org/auteurs/index.php?l=G) 
> . Ah well.
>
>   

For English guys, DBNL is a website about dutch literature (the guys 
with the gray hair and thick glasses complaining about sorting order 
;-)) and Kees gives an example of how the names are sorted. As I stated 
before, in Holland the tussenvoegsel is redundant and is only used as a 
last order to sort names. You can also see that the system is not always 
consistent by the way, Paul van Geest is first and then P.J.F. de Geest 
but on the other hand W. de Geest is placed for Wibrandus van Geest. 
Dutch is sometimes a compilcated language.

By the way, I am not complaining about the sortingorder, I am 
complaining about the way it is written.

I have never seen Dutch names written as Jonge, de, Freek this is a 
typical "computer" way to list things (and even in the wrong order). We 
are are human and I think computers need to learn "human" and we human 
don't need to learn "computer"

Cheers,

Fred (getting philosophical on saturday evening)