[mb-users] Sortingorder Dutch tussenvoegsel (nobiliary particle)

[Fred Marchee]

On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 08:43:58AM -0700, Sander van Zoest wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 01:44:28PM +0200, Kuno Woudt wrote:
>>
>> Just an FYI: it seems that a tussenvoegsel is a nobiliary particle in english.
>> <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nobiliary_particle>
>> <http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nobiliary%20particle>
>>     
>
>   
Don't forget that we are talking about the Dutch language. In German 
"von" means that your great, great, great, great greatgrand parents 
probably stole a lot of money from the poor. I Holland the 
"tussenvoegsel" is often the result a guy called Napoleon (round 1800) 
who wanted everybody to haven a lastname. Before that time it was common 
in Holland to have a lastname after your father so your father was Jan, 
your name is Piet. So your complete name was Piet Jans zoon (Jan's son) 
Later this names where shortened to Piet Jansen or Piet Janszen. (when 
got a son name Gerrit he was called Gerrit Pietersen the same is still 
common in Iceland)

But back to Napoleon, everbody had to choose a last name and a lot 
people choose their city (Piet van Breda) their province (Piet de Zeeuw) 
their occupation Karel de Molenaar (Miller, in Holland we have 
windmills) or when they where complaining that they don't want a 
lastname they choose a silly name like Naaktgeboren (born naked).

So the tussenvoegsel 'van' doesn't make you royal, sorry Sander ;-),  
It's only that your great, great, great, great, great grandparents came 
from Soest, a place in the centre of Holland surround by castles and 
other rich guys stealing from the poor.

In German it's a little bit different and is 'von' a noble title (not 
always by the way) and when you stole enough from the poor you could 
earn a 'von' in you name but translated the 'von' means that you were 
property or came from so von Bayern means that you had something to do 
with Bayern. The "real" nobles shorten 'von' to v. So Sander von Zoest 
could be but Sander v. Zoest IS of blue-blood. (sorted as Zoest, Sander 
van by the way;-) )

Cherio,

Fred