[mb-users] Guess I'll boycott adding release events

[Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen]

(Please edit out the sections you're no longer replying to. It will make 
the messages far easier to navigate.)

Frederic Da Vitoria skrev:
>On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 8:04 PM, Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen
><freso.dk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>Frederic Da Vitoria skrev:
>>>On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen
>>><freso.dk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>Frederic Da Vitoria skrev:
>>>>>[...], or we need ways to assess the reliability of each piece of
>>>>>information.
>>>>Isn't this done by reviewing the edits related to that piece of
>>>>information.
>>>What is there to review about a release date? AFAIK, the comments
>>>entered by the editor when he entered the new release event are lost.
>>Where/when are are the comments lost? AFAICT, the comments I entered during
>>my last release event addition are still to be found:
>>http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/results.html?object_type=album&orderby=desc&object_id=665858
>
>Almost unusable.

Why?

>start as a normal user would do from the Release
>http://musicbrainz.org/show/release/?releaseid=665858 and try to find
>your annotation.

Clicking "View release edits" brings it right up. No problem.

>Or let's try with this one: are there sources for
>http://musicbrainz.org/show/release/?releaseid=77593 ?

Yes. The release events are sourced from Amazon (2000-09-18), Wikipedia 
(1959), and a physically owned copy (2000). The release itself is not 
sourced, nor is there any source to the release annotation edit (or a 
description of what the edit was about :().

>>Eh. You're criticising the lack of ability to cite your source(s) when
>>entering data into annotations. I tell you where to do just this; citing
>>source(s) when entering data into annotation. And then you tell me that
>>entering data into annotations is a fall-back? That wasn't what we were
>>talking about. Or I wasn't anyway, and apparently misread your initial
>>comment... ?
>
>Sorry, there's annotation and annotation.

Well, only if you consider artist, label, track, and release annotations 
as different kinds of annotations? These are the only places the 
terminology "annotation" is used throughout MusicBrainz.

>So I believe using the
>Release annotations is a fallback solution. And the edit annotations

There is no such thing as an "edit annotation". I'm guessing you mean 
"edit note".

>are very difficult to find. Furthermore, if I want to add another
>source to an existing release event, how can I?

All edits have an "Add note" link. Using that, you can add a note (for 
example, citing the source).

<zap>
>>"putting this kind of info in a general-purpose field" - what kind of info?
>>I'm talking about citing sources when you're falling back on the "last
>>resort" of entering data into annotations. I'm not talking about the info
>>actually going into the annotation. This is meta meta information we're
>>discussing, not the meta information itself.
>
>I suppose you now understand what I meant :-)

I think so, but I'm not sure you're getting what I meant. (Possibly 
because you've had/got the terminology confused.)

>>[...]  I can only repeat that all pieces of information added to
>>the MB db have a corresponding edit to which one is free to add edit notes
>>which could easily be citing sources.
>
>How (after the release event has been added)?

Adding a new edit note. See above.

>>>>>But the current database design doesn't allow for this for subjects such
>>>>>as release dates or labels.
>>>>Sure does: edit notes.
>>>As long as someone can see them.
>>They're saved perpetually, for all users to (re)view as they please.
>
>As I see it, "they're saved perpetually, for all users smart and
>perseverent to (re)view" The info is there, granted, but it is not
>easily available and AFAIK not editable. This is not a source handling
>mechanism, it is a edit history management system.

Edits themselves aren't editable, but it's very possibly to add new edit 
notes – noting that previously mentioned sources were wrong, are no 
more, etc., as well as mentioning new(ly discovered) sources.

This edit and edit note system is one the most fundamental parts of 
MusicBrainz data contributing, so if one is not able to find this... it 
needs to be better documented. I'm also not arguing that edits can still 
be hard to find. (E.g., "various artist" album edits and artist-artist 
relations. But these are already acknowledged bugs, and prone to be 
fixed at some point.)

-- 
Sincerely,
Frederik "Freso" S. Olesen <http://freso.dk/>

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